A few nights ago, I had a couple of fairly interesting and thought provoking conversations with a some of my guy friends. A some of my SINGLE guy friends. I feel like that's an important attribute to point out about these guys given the topic at hand.
The second conversation is one that I'm still thinking about now, and still haven't been able to quite wrap my mind around--it's all very cerebral and religious and probably kind of a touchy topic. So I'll save that for another day. But the first conversation is something that I feel extremely strongly about.
We were discussing some friends who'd been dating for a short time and the guy was trying to figure out how to break up with the girl because "she'd gotten too clingy" and was "calling too much and wanting to hang out all the time"--to which I responded, if he really liked this girl her wanting to hang out with him and calling every day wouldn't be "stalkerish", it would just be (gasp) DATING and he would (double gasp) probably be cool with it!! I then went on to say that there's a fine line between trying too hard to make a relationship work and not trying hard enough, that it seemed like a lot of people nowadays give up on relationships for the most trivial reasons.
Granted, that's what dating is all about, testing someone out before you make the BIG commitment. But if you've been with someone for a year or more, do you break up with them because the way they chew annoys you, or is it that you just don't love them anymore and the annoying chewing style is the manifestation of your changed feelings. If you still have feelings for the person, couldn't you just throw something at them and say, "For the love of GOD, close your mouth when you chew!"
But after I mentioned these personal beliefs to the guys they practically lept from their chairs screaming, "THAT'S SETTLING, YOU SHOULD NEVER SETTLE, OMG! YOU FOOL!" Or something to that effect anyway. One of them commented that if you really love someone, you'll see past their flaws, which I agree with to an extent. I believe that if you really love someone, you accept them, flaws and all. You don't think they're perfect (or at least not after about 6 months together) but you decide that you're willing to deal with the things that annoy the crap out of you, because you love him or her. Because let me give you a little hint--everyone is going to annoy the crap out of you at some point. Your roommate, your best friend, your sister, your parents--does that mean that you don't love them? No, it means that you throw something and say chew with your mouth closed.
I personally don't ever want anyone to look at me and see perfection. I know that I'm not perfect and I don't want to live my life in fear of falling from the pedestal. I know that there are dealbreakers--that's why people break up, and that's totally fine. If it's not there, it's just not there. However, I do feel like I'm living in a generation that expects a knight in shining armor, that wants a perfect soulmate with whom you'll never argue or want to punch in the nose, something that no one can ever live up to. I don't know where this comes from--possibly too many viewings of romantic comedies or Disney movies, but somehow we've ended up with completely skewed views of what a relationship should be about. Because let me tell you this, if you spend the rest of your life looking for a guy or girl who has no flaws, who you think you'll be able to live with for 50 years and never have a flicker of annoyance, then you are going to be an extremely lonely person. What you want to do is find someone who can "come on baby light my fire", but who can also be a best friend and companion--who can put the forks away in the knife drawer and you grit your teeth and tell them for the BAJILLIONTH time that THIS IS NOT WHERE THE FORKS GO, and then sit on the couch and watch Grey's Anatomy together.
Don't settle. Never settle for less than you want and feel that you deserve. But know that you yourself are not perfection personified--so why would you expect that from anyone else?
And last point--if you really think that love means never having to say you're sorry? YOU NEED YOUR HEAD EXAMINED.
frankly, i've always found that love means having to constantly say you're sorry, or constantly demanding an apology from the other party!
Posted by: shani | August 29, 2006 at 06:04 PM
I don't think that our generation really knows how to date and take the time to get to know someone. Because in reality, the first few dates are like job interviews in that you're on your best behavior and the flaws don't come out. Or, maybe that's why we're so quick to judge because if we see such things from the get-go, then imagine what it will be like when they let their guard down.
I can somewhat understand the stalkerish theory and it's hard to say, not knowing how long your friend was dating this girl. But, my co-worker was telling me yesterday how she went on a second date with a guy to the Mariners/Red Sox game. She wasn't sure if she really liked him, but wanted to give him another chance. Well, the guy apparently showed up dressed to the nines, had the best seats and then had his friend in Mariners marketing put some message up on the scoreboard to her. She felt like that was "too much" for just a second date, and I have to admit that I probably would've felt the same way. It's a catch-22, I guess for both genders, in that's a fine line between being sweet and stalkerish...though I guess if we really like the person, then it's not stalkerish.
Okay and I keep going here b/c there's another point. I did a post once on trivial dating dealbreakers b/c I think we all have them, like in Seinfeld or Chandler from Friends. The chewing with the mouth open would turn me off, especially if I just met him, because it shows a lack of manners and I would wonder if he would have any manners when it came how he treats me or others -- not to mention that I'd be embarassed to take him to meet my mom or to a company event...
Posted by: Becky | August 29, 2006 at 06:24 PM
When you're in love, the flaws endear you to the person; when you're out of love, the flaws become all you see. At least that's always the way I've seen it. Don't ever settle. Life is too short.
Posted by: wordnerd | August 29, 2006 at 06:52 PM
Ugh! My therapist used to talk about reading her daughter stories that enedd with "....happily ever after." She then added, "because they worked really hard on their communication and always did this that and the other to make it work."
I'm hoping I have finally figured out how much work it takes and the the deal with the right person is that you know it is worth the effort.
Posted by: sophie | August 29, 2006 at 07:02 PM
Amen, sister! You do have to apologize all the time in real relationships, and you do have to work at it, and you are going to make mistakes . . . and so is the other person. And that's all normal and natural. And if your buddy/buddies are getting all bent out of shape about it, then they're probably just not ready for a relationship. That's all :-)
Posted by: Airhead | August 29, 2006 at 07:37 PM
It even sounds good in cyberspace!!!!!
Posted by: The Incubator | August 29, 2006 at 08:57 PM
I found myself in the wonderful position of meeting my other half on the internet - back when it was unusual to do so.
People often ask us - when the story gets told - "what was it like - meeting somebody from the internet?", and our answer is always "much easier!"
We had already got past all the crap - the rubbish you talk about on the first few dates. We already "knew" each other, and meeting really just confirmed that we were who we had portrayed ourselves as.
Of course since then everybody seems to meet their partners on the internet - it's become a "normal" place to meet people.
Posted by: Jonathan | August 29, 2006 at 11:57 PM
I believe in the stalkerish theory, good for saying it. You CAN call too much...but then again, if he calls back (bc he likes you!), what's the problem? If he REALLY liked her, it wouldn't bother him. I have definitely seen girls say the SAME thing about guys (me being one of them!) and truth of the matter was I just didn't like them.
As for flaws...if your really like/love the guy, you see past them. Easily. And you dont have to be with him for that long to "be able" to see past them. They just won't bother you.
It's all about chemistry and connection in the beginning!
Posted by: Sarah | August 30, 2006 at 12:14 AM
Loved this.
It's so damn true. And though I want someone who is 'perfect' for me, I also want someone whose annoyances I can look past. I'm annoying and obsessive and verbose, therefore not perfect, but would want someone to get past that and love me anyway. That to me is really perfect.
Posted by: Heather B. | August 30, 2006 at 08:02 PM
Very good post!
It goes both ways in a relationship. If you can look past the flaws, loving someone should be natural. Relationships are work sometimes, but you learn so much as you grow old, you know what becomes important and what doesn't.
Posted by: J | August 31, 2006 at 01:08 AM
I fell in head over heels in love w. my husband. I actually dated him once, spent a weekend w. him and never left. We got to know each other in the hardest way possible: living together right away (not something I reccomend). We all come w. warts. The key is being honest. And, honesty is not always pretty or easy.
And, you have to know when to fight, when to give in, when to say sorry. it is HARD work.
Great post!
Posted by: Nancy | August 31, 2006 at 01:18 AM
you have wisdom beyond your years! but i've said that before, i think a few years ago. lol
relationships are hard work. but people are not twins of each other and they learn their ways of doing things for as many years as they spent living before they met the other. and they'll continue to learn and think of things differently than you... because they're individuals... as someone mentioned, you know what's important and what's not.
i think that guy who doesn't like the girl calling just isn't as interested in her as she is in him. period. if he liked her, it wouldn't bother him that she was calling. he'd want to hang out with her. just my two cents.
great post!
Posted by: anne | August 31, 2006 at 01:27 AM
Awwwww. This was sweet. And I like Grey's Anatomy. My weird pet peeve has to do with forks- they have to be loaded in the dishwasher tines DOWN. Spoons go handle down, forks go handles up. How hard is that??? Fortunately, dork boy loads his dishwasher the same way. Yep, I checked! hahahahaha
Posted by: M | August 31, 2006 at 07:55 AM
Everyone has had some great comments here. I'd like to add one more though... (and this is NOT directed at you, my dear!)
Don't ever settle for someone that is settling for you. Does that make sense? I've seen people stay with someone who doesn't absolutely worship the ground they walk on and it makes me sad.
I've been in a luke-warm, "well, I guess we can be together because it's convenient" or whatever. Ick.
Posted by: RisibleGirl | September 01, 2006 at 06:20 PM